Curse

Master Ketsu · Aug 19, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Problem:

The skill update from http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates:August_2009 has caused nothing but trouble in PVP arenas. The skills are either degenerate, not powerful enough to be a real buff, or overbuffed. Half the teams in HA are sway now, Armor of sanctity is being abused in TA, E/me distortionists are still 765-1234-123-123-123-1234-123'ing their way to gladpoints in RA, and while I dont GvG I would not be surprised if there is plenty of degenerate nonsense going on there either.

Suggestion:

Roll back the PVP portion of the Update entirely, consult people who actually play PVP at a non-noob level and try again.

Reverend Dr · Aug 19, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Are you sure you don't mean 2006?

Although seriously the sin updates were terrible and the dervish updates sure made dervishes more viable (dervish secondaries).

[DE] · Aug 19, 2009, 01:41 AM // 01:41

I highly enjoy Divine Boon.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 19, 2009, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Then make your non-noob level brain conjure up counters? Isn't that what 'meta' is all about, reguardless of buffs or nerfs?

Something becomes OP in retaliation to the current meta, people whine, and whether through nerfs, buffs, or people getting enough a clue to counter it, something else comes into meta?

so... counter it.

...with the exception of Mind Blast eles. those seem pretty OP because the only quick counter to it is Diversion.

Chocobo1 · Aug 19, 2009, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Then make your non-noob level brain conjure up counters? Isn't that what 'meta' is all about, reguardless of buffs or nerfs?

I hope your joking. Play in HA for an hour or two, and then see how you feel.

MithranArkanere · Aug 19, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Anyone who actually plays with a non-noob level with cope with any change and create working builds anyways.

Asking for reverts is one of the most noobish things to do.

Kattar · Aug 19, 2009, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

who actually play PVP at a non-noob level and try again

Balance team doesn't care about these people. Conform to the higher standards of higher end PvP. That's what they're trying to train people to do.

Martin Alvito · Aug 19, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

Balance team doesn't care about these people. Conform to the higher standards of higher end PvP. That's what they're trying to train people to do.

Huh? The OP's thesis is that the most recent skill update has enabled more noobish play and failed to eliminate the skilless Mind Blast/Distortion bar.

Giving bad players crutches like sway and IWAY just keeps them bad forever, because it strips them of the incentive to learn to not suck.

That said, the present problems in the meta are far more fundamental than the OP seems to think. The primary issue with the most recent balance update is that it didn't fix existing problems. The new problems it created are minor by comparison.

The "learn to counter it" argument is overused. Mark of Insecurity was absolutely broken. Zealous weapons removing Exhaustion was terrifyingly broken. Some things really do need to be fixed.

Also, bad builds can screw up a meta if enough people play them. Bad builds that are everywhere push everyone else into the one or two builds that can consistently beat it. Some of the old IWAY metas were terrible not because IWAY was good, but because IWAY just beat a lot of otherwise good builds. The result was a stale meta with two or three non-IWAY builds that beat IWAY and were competitive with one another. Without IWAY you would have had a much larger set of possible builds, making for greater diversity, less boredom and more fun.

The irony is that the OP's solution is flawed, because good players are unlikely to look at this month's changes and say, "I know! Let's go play some sway!" There's not much to do about that sort of error other than fix it at the first opportunity.

Krill · Aug 19, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

The sin and derv buffs need to be rolled back for sure, there's not a single legitimate argument for keep this crap unless the goal really is to make PvP who can smash their keys faster. One certainly gets that impression when b-spike has never been dealt with appropriately, the palm meta and mind blast still being so powerful.

Ariena Najea · Aug 19, 2009, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

so... counter it.

...with the exception of Mind Blast eles. those seem pretty OP because the only quick counter to it is Diversion.

I play a Power Block Mesmer in RA. It's hilarious, additionally bring Shame and Diversion for Healers, Empathy for physicals, and their entire team will hate you.

And HA right now really is ridiculous. If you're looking for an easy counter through, just bring a Blinding Surge Elementalist. The Chain Lightning buff also helps you spike, so it's not a bad template.

Sarevok Thordin · Aug 20, 2009, 08:04 PM // 20:04

I use plague touch in RA, AoSers just give me easy weakness to pass about.

Reverend Dr · Aug 20, 2009, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The irony is that the OP's solution is flawed, because good players are unlikely to look at this month's changes and say, "I know! Let's go play some sway!" There's not much to do about that sort of error other than fix it at the first opportunity.

I'm pretty sure I've been playing against Jatt's Sway lately.

But seriously the ranger buffs really are terrible.